When Did Johnny Turn Down The Beatles?
In which I take a look at when and why at least three drummers other than Ringo were approached about replacing Pete Best.
While researching the recent edition of the Forgotten Beatles podcast featuring drummers Colin Hanton and Johnny Hutchinson, I came across an interview with Hutchinson in which we recalled that during his short three-gig appearance with The Beatles in mid-August 1962 the Beatles’ manager Brian Epstein had discussed with him taking on the role of The Beatles drummer on a permanent basis.
“I was in the Grosvenor Hotel in Chester,” after playing at the Riverpark Ballroom in Chester with The Beatles. “We sat down, and Brian Epstein and Bob Wooler were just looking at me. So I said, ‘What the f##k do you two want?’ And they looked at each other, and Brian said to Bob, ‘What do you think?’ Bob said, ‘Well, Brian, I think John would suit The Beatles down to the ground.’ Then Brian said, ‘I do, too. John, I want you to be The Beatles’ drummer.’
I’m sure that’s how Hutchinson remembers things but the dates didn’t work out for me. The three gigs, one in Chester on the 16th of August, and two on the 17th (at the Majestic Ballroom in Birkenhead, and the Tower Ballroom in New Brighton) were last-minute fill-ins between the sacking of Pete Best on the morning of the 16th and the arrival of Ringo on the 18th. When Pete was sacked he was told that Ringo was replacing him.
Ringo had been offered the job on the 11th of August but needed time to wrap up an engagement at a Butlin’s holiday camp in Wales with his current group, Rory Storm & The Hurricanes, and wouldn’t be back in Liverpool until the 18th. So it’s unlikely that Johnny was approached about the job during those August gigs as Ringo was in place.
But he and two other drummers were certainly approached at some point to explore whether they would be interested in the job—but when were they asked, and why?
In retrospect, it's clear that John, Paul, and George all wanted Ringo in The Beatles. They got to know him while The Beatles and The Hurricanes shared a bill in Hamburg in 1960. Ringo would often stay after the Hurricanes' sets had finished and listen to The Beatles. He knew their repertoire, and on occasions when Pete couldn’t play, Ringo would sit in. They even recorded a one-off single together in Hamburg. Back in Liverpool Ringo had once again sat in for a couple of gigs when Pete was sick.
I believe that Pete’s departure was inevitable, and the note from EMI after signing a contract with The Beatles in July 1962 that the producers wanted to use a session drummer for the studio recordings sealed his fate.
While Ringo was everyone’s first choice I believe that being the businessman he was, Brian Epstein wanted to sound out some other drummers to see if they might be interested in case Ringo said ‘No.’
Those conversations had to have taken place in July 1962.
The conversation with drummer Bobby Graham most likely occurred on the 27th of July, 1962 when the chart-topping band he was playing with, Joe Brown and The Bruvvers shared a bill with The Beatles at the Tower Ballroom in New Brighton. Bobby Graham was London-based and part of a group that had chart success, so why would he move to Liverpool to join a band that had only just landed a recording contract? He declined.
Discussions were also held with young Richie Gavin of Earl Preston and the TTs who was considered the up-and-coming drummer of the Liverpool scene. As Richie was under 21 Brian spoke to his father first to get permission to approach Richie. But Richie had just landed a full-time job, put down a deposit on a house, and wanted to settle down. Plus apparently, he couldn’t stand John Lennon. So he also declined.
Which leaves Johnny Hutchinson. If the conversation with Brian Epstein didn’t take place on August 16th after the Chester gig, when did it happen?
My guess is that was after a gig with Johnny’s regular band, The Big Three. They had signed with Brian Epstein's NEMS management company on 1st July, so it was most likely after that date. They were also on the same bill at the Tower Ballroom on July 27th with The Beatles and The Bruvvers. So it seems to me most likely that having been turned down by Bobby Graham, Epstein then turned to one of his own and sounded out Johnny Hutchinson. As it turned out Hutchinson wasn’t interested in the prospect of joining The Beatles either.
“I told him that ‘I wouldn’t join The Beatles for a big clock. The Beatles couldn’t make as good a sound as the Big Three. My group is ten times better than The Beatles!’
No matter when the conversation actually took place, Hutchinson, as well as Graham and Gavin, always maintained that they had no regrets about their decisions.
Alan
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Podcast Updates
The latest Forgotten Beatles episode is now live and can be found on your favorite podcast platform, or directly right HERE.
This month the spotlight falls on the Quarrymen’s first drummer, Colin Hanton (who makes a great cameo at the end of The Savage Young Beatles promo video below),
And the driving sound of The Big Three, Johnny Hutchinson, who twice found himself playing behind John, Paul, and George, (see the photo at the top of the newsletter).
The Savage Young Beatles
The Savage Young Beatles played another high-energy gig to a packed house at Liverpool’s historic Jacaranda Club on 15th December.
You can find some video clips on the group’s Instragam account
Beatles Books From My Shelves
“Pre:Fab: The story of one man, his drums, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, and George Harrison” By Colin Hanton with Colin Hall
If you want a real first-hand account of what life was like at the very beginning of what would become The Beatles, you can’t beat this memoir from The Quarrymen’s first drummer, Colin Hanton.
Colin was there from the start in 1957 and continued as the Quarrymen’s drummer through the comings and goings over the next few years as first Paul McCartney, and then George Harrison arrived on the scene..
On July 12, 1958, Colin became the first drummer to record alongside John, Paul, and George, when along with pianist John Duff Lowe they cut an acetate single at Percy Philips home studio in Liverpool. They each paid 17 shillings and sixpence to record a rendition of Buddy Holly’s ‘That’ll Be The Day.” and a McCartney-Harrison original; “In Spite of All The Danger.”
The book is not only a great look at the early days of The Quarrymen, but also a fascinating account of life in post-war Liverpool in the 1950s.
The Beatles in Comics
Fabulous / Fab 208 (UK)- 1964-1980
Although technically a magazine rather than a comic this publication was racked alongside the comics in British newsagents for years.
Fabulous’s first issue, dated 18 January 1964, introduced the concept of a magazine focused on pop-star pin-ups to the British public. The magazine's early days were inextricably linked with The Beatles. In addition to appearing on the cover of the first issue (above), they appeared in every issue during the first two years of its existence, and some issues were solely devoted to the boys from Liverpool.
In June 1966 the magazine brokered a deal with Radio Luxembourg and its title was changed to Fabulous 208 (to note the station’s wavelength). In 1969 the title was shortened to Fab208, and it continued to be published under that title until its demise in 1980.
At its peak, the magazine had a weekly circulation of 250,000.
Rock out to our BTWB Playlists
If you would like to listen to full versions of the songs mentioned in either the main Before They Were Beatles podcast, or the new Forgotten Beatles series you can now find them on my new YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@AlanPorterWriter
Or you can check out the Before They Were Beatles playlist on Spotify at
What Else Is Alan Working On?
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See you next time.
Alan J. Porter
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